Unusual functions of cheap parts

Günther Dietrich · Nov 29, 2005

Oliver Betz <OBetz@despammed.com> wrote:

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Uh, real Labskaus doesn't contain fish. And the picture is
unappetizing.

During my time in the german military, I had some courses of instruction
on a base near Hamburg. One day they served Labskaus in the staff
canteen there. That stuff looked just like that on the wiki photo.
This was the event when I learned why they had roller blinds made of
solid steel between kitchen and refectory.
One of the comrades said: 'I won't eat this. That's food for pigs!' And
he threw his dish into the kitchen. Most others followed.
The officer of the guard, whom the cooks called after closing the roller
blinds, had to draw his gun and shoot in the ceiling to calm the riot
down.
Since I had been near the end of the queue, I had no opportunity to try
this Labskaus. I still don't know what it does taste of.

Best regards,
Günther

Joel Kolstad · Nov 30, 2005

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:9u5co19jkjoep5n68ddmk71vh709v2eatk@4ax.com...

Tell me about it. I tried some pins to see if they would snap, and
they turn out to have incredibly mushy reverse recovery, Slop Recovery
Diodes.

I've always been led to believe that this wasn't a bug, but a feature.
Really! (E.g., you can often get away with one diode when you'd otherwise
need two if the things actually recovered quickly...)

Phil Hobbs · Nov 30, 2005

Oliver Betz wrote:

Henning Paul <henningpaul@gmx.de> wrote:

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Uh, real Labskaus doesn't contain fish. And the picture is
unappetizing.

You said it. "Um, do I eat this, or did I"

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

Paul Burke · Nov 30, 2005

Henning Paul wrote:

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Here in Bremen/Germany we usually leave away the fish and use just Corned
Beef (the brazilian Corned Beef is just fine).

Citizens of Liverpool are called 'Scousers' (when they aren't called
worse), this derived from the local delicacy lobscouse. Corned beef stew
with chips in it.

Paul Burke

Henry Kiefer · Nov 30, 2005

Hi Jim -

And on what delay timescale it works?

regards -
Henry

"RST Engineering" <jim@rstengineering.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:11oehva6fhp3523@corp.supernews.com...

And by varying the reverse bias through a current source (or moderately
large fixed resistor) you can make them into nifty phase shifters.

Jim

I wrote: NOT PIN - Diodes - as they wouldn't snap.

i mean Band Switching diodes for TV-Tuners like the BA244 and the
BA682.

BA682 Datasheet:

http://www.vishay.com/docs/85530/85530.pdf

- and they snap! Try it!

Jorgen
dj0ud

RST Engineering · Nov 30, 2005

A step-recovery ("snap") diode works on the principle of stored charge in
the diode. During the forward biased half of the AC waveform, the diode is
a very low impedance and it stores excess charge; during the reverse biased
half of the waveform, the diode remains a low impedance until the stored
charge is depleted, at which time the diode "snaps" into high impedance.
This snap acts much like a spark-gap transmitter, in that a tremendous
number of higher order harmonics are generated. In general (and there are
ways to enhance this), the power available from any harmonic is around 1/n *
Pin, where n is the order of the harmonic and Pin is the RF power input to
the diode.

Biasing the diode simply varies the point on the reverse cycle of the AC
waveform where the diode snaps. For maximum power, you try to get the diode
to snap at the peak of the waveform. However, by varying the diode bias,
you can get it to snap before or after the peak of the waveform. Generally
you can get it to snap plus or minus about 30 degrees about the peak before
the snap action degrades.

60 degrees of phase shift is nothing to talk about unless you are working
with the 10th harmonic, which means a phase shift of 600 degrees. Now
you've got something to work with.

Jim

Oliver Betz · Nov 30, 2005

"Günther Dietrich" <guenther_dietrich@despammed.com> wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Uh, real Labskaus doesn't contain fish. And the picture is
unappetizing.

During my time in the german military, I had some courses of instruction
on a base near Hamburg. One day they served Labskaus in the staff
canteen there. That stuff looked just like that on the wiki photo.

Well, then the cook is to blame, not Labskaus per se. Go to Hamburg
and visit the "Old Commercial Room". I guess they make still delicious
Labskaus.

Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen (oliverbetz.de)

Rich Grise · Nov 30, 2005

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:00:50 +0100, Henning Paul wrote:

Spehro Pefhany schrieb:

I think I remember something like that, maybe with ground beef.

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Here in Bremen/Germany we usually leave away the fish and use just Corned
Beef (the brazilian Corned Beef is just fine). And sometimes, you find
diced pickles in it. Tastes even better, then.

Looks a lot like ordinary corned beef hash to me, if a little less
coarsely chopped.

But I wonder why they serve it with one of these?

http://www2.catalognavigator.com/libertyindustries/viewitems/tacky-mats/hand-held-tacky-roll-mop?plpver=1001

;-)
Rich

Spehro Pefhany · Nov 30, 2005

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:23:05 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
<rich@example.net> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:00:50 +0100, Henning Paul wrote:

Spehro Pefhany schrieb:

I think I remember something like that, maybe with ground beef.

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Here in Bremen/Germany we usually leave away the fish and use just Corned
Beef (the brazilian Corned Beef is just fine). And sometimes, you find
diced pickles in it. Tastes even better, then.

Looks a lot like ordinary corned beef hash to me, if a little less
coarsely chopped.

But I wonder why they serve it with one of these?

http://www2.catalognavigator.com/libertyindustries/viewitems/tacky-mats/hand-held-tacky-roll-mop?plpver=1001

;-)
Rich

You could also serve with one of these:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/BismarckArbeitszimmer1886.jpg

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Winfried Salomon · Nov 30, 2005

Hello Jorgen,

Jorgen Lund-Nielsen wrote:

Winfried Salomon wrote:

Hello Jorgen,

Jorgen Lund-Nielsen wrote:

[.....]

2N2369 for fast pulses.

btw, do you know a standard complementary pnp-transistor for the
2N2369, such like 2N3905 but with higher ft and less feedback
capacitance? It seems that the manufactorers have almost no data on
their internet pages.

mfg. Winfried

Maybe 2N4261 ? Have not looked into the datasheet, but as i remember,
i have seen them sometimes in complementary with the 2N2369

the problem is, that it is an rf-transistor and can't be driven at
30V/0.2A, I found a complementary in an old table KTT, the 2N2894A, but
it also has max. 12V, so I find no other than the 2N3906.

If I simulate with the 2N3906, the frequency response is not worse than
with the 2N2894A.

mfg. Winfried

Rich Grise · Nov 30, 2005

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:09:49 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:23:05 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
rich@example.net> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:00:50 +0100, Henning Paul wrote:

Spehro Pefhany schrieb:

I think I remember something like that, maybe with ground beef.

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Here in Bremen/Germany we usually leave away the fish and use just Corned
Beef (the brazilian Corned Beef is just fine). And sometimes, you find
diced pickles in it. Tastes even better, then.

Looks a lot like ordinary corned beef hash to me, if a little less
coarsely chopped.

But I wonder why they serve it with one of these?

http://www2.catalognavigator.com/libertyindustries/viewitems/tacky-mats/hand-held-tacky-roll-mop?plpver=1001

;-)
Rich

You could also serve with one of these:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/BismarckArbeitszimmer1886.jpg

From a cursory search, it looks like it'd be kinda hard to find one

these days. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Spehro Pefhany · Nov 30, 2005

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:57:50 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
<rich@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:09:49 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:23:05 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
rich@example.net> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:00:50 +0100, Henning Paul wrote:

Spehro Pefhany schrieb:

I think I remember something like that, maybe with ground beef.

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Here in Bremen/Germany we usually leave away the fish and use just Corned
Beef (the brazilian Corned Beef is just fine). And sometimes, you find
diced pickles in it. Tastes even better, then.

Looks a lot like ordinary corned beef hash to me, if a little less
coarsely chopped.

But I wonder why they serve it with one of these?

http://www2.catalognavigator.com/libertyindustries/viewitems/tacky-mats/hand-held-tacky-roll-mop?plpver=1001

;-)
Rich

You could also serve with one of these:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/BismarckArbeitszimmer1886.jpg

From a cursory search, it looks like it'd be kinda hard to find one
these days. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

He looks like this these days:

http://www.gdh-imports.com/acatalog/04GE01.jpg

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Nov 30, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:41:06 +0100, Winfried Salomon
wsalomontrashcan@t-online.de> wrote:

Hello Jorgen,

Jorgen Lund-Nielsen wrote:

[.....]
2N2369 for fast pulses.

btw, do you know a standard complementary pnp-transistor for the 2N2369,
such like 2N3905 but with higher ft and less feedback capacitance? It
seems that the manufactorers have almost no data on their internet pages.

mfg. Winfried

A 2N2369 is a gold-doped NPN, gold-doped to kill storage time and
improve recovery from saturation. I don't recall any PNP device with
gold-doping... or the equivalent.

...Jim Thompson

National Semi's (now Fairchild) 2n5771 was a gold-doped PNP.
ft>=850MHz. For avalanche mode one might try the lower-Vce-rated
PN3640 (12v), or PN3639 (6v).

I might even have notes on this. I tested/compared various BJTs in
avalanche mode some years ago, trying to find the "best." ISTR picking
the 2n2369, both because it was fast, and because it avalanched
reliably where other types wouldn't.

James Arthur

John Larkin · Nov 30, 2005

On 30 Nov 2005 14:32:29 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 21:41:06 +0100, Winfried Salomon
wsalomontrashcan@t-online.de> wrote:

Hello Jorgen,

Jorgen Lund-Nielsen wrote:

[.....]
2N2369 for fast pulses.

btw, do you know a standard complementary pnp-transistor for the 2N2369,
such like 2N3905 but with higher ft and less feedback capacitance? It
seems that the manufactorers have almost no data on their internet pages.

mfg. Winfried

A 2N2369 is a gold-doped NPN, gold-doped to kill storage time and
improve recovery from saturation. I don't recall any PNP device with
gold-doping... or the equivalent.

...Jim Thompson

National Semi's (now Fairchild) 2n5771 was a gold-doped PNP.
ft>=850MHz. For avalanche mode one might try the lower-Vce-rated
PN3640 (12v), or PN3639 (6v).

I might even have notes on this. I tested/compared various BJTs in
avalanche mode some years ago, trying to find the "best." ISTR picking
the 2n2369, both because it was fast, and because it avalanched
reliably where other types wouldn't.

James Arthur

Hi, James,

Interestingly, the best avalanchers aren't usually super-fast
transistors, but old klunky things. The Zetex avalanche transistors
have lowish Ft's and are made in Russia, maybe on an old process.

John

Nov 30, 2005

John Larkin wrote:

On 30 Nov 2005 14:32:29 -0800, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

A 2N2369 is a gold-doped NPN, gold-doped to kill storage time and
improve recovery from saturation. I don't recall any PNP device with
gold-doping... or the equivalent.

...Jim Thompson

National Semi's (now Fairchild) 2n5771 was a gold-doped PNP.
ft>=850MHz. For avalanche mode one might try the lower-Vce-rated
PN3640 (12v), or PN3639 (6v).

I might even have notes on this. I tested/compared various BJTs in
avalanche mode some years ago, trying to find the "best." ISTR picking
the 2n2369, both because it was fast, and because it avalanched
reliably where other types wouldn't.

James Arthur

Hi, James,

Interestingly, the best avalanchers aren't usually super-fast
transistors, but old klunky things. The Zetex avalanche transistors
have lowish Ft's and are made in Russia, maybe on an old process.

John

Howdy John,
I was unclear: by "...it was fast..." I meant the 2n2369 was one of
the devices with the fastest avalanche edges.

Digging through some of my notes, I don't see the BJT comparison, but
a 2n2222 biased to +100Vce, banged / triggered by a 74HC-series gate,
gave synchronous 750pS risetime pulses. Not very impressive, really,
though good for higher-power stuff than I needed.

Interestingly, I found a 74AC00 driving an MPS2369 was faster & less
trouble: 360pS fall (turn on) time, & 570pS rise (turn off) time, and
no nasty high voltage supplies. It was possibly even a little faster
than measured--at 360pS I was pushing my poor little 7S14 1-GHz
sampling plug-in pretty hard.

Best,
James

Winfield Hill · Dec 1, 2005

Winfried Salomon wrote...

Jorgen Lund-Nielsen wrote:
Winfried Salomon wrote:

btw, do you know a standard complementary pnp-transistor for the
2N2369, such like 2N3905 but with higher ft and less feedback
capacitance? It seems that the manufactorers have almost no data
on their internet pages.

Maybe 2N4261? Have not looked into the datasheet, but as i remember,
i have seen them sometimes in complementary with the 2N2369

That was a high-frequency part for the time, spec'd at 1200MHz...

the problem is, that it is an rf-transistor and can't be driven at
30V/0.2A, I found a complementary in an old table KTT, the 2N2894A,
but it also has max. 12V, so I find no other than the 2N3906.

An old Raytheon datasheet says the 2N2894 was doped with platinum.

BTW -- in AoE, we list the 2n5771 as a PNP complement to the NPN
2n5769, both 15V plastic versions of older metal-can parts.

--
Thanks,
- Win

Rich Grise · Dec 1, 2005

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 17:11:17 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:57:50 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
rich@example.net> wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:09:49 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:23:05 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
rich@example.net> wrote:

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:00:50 +0100, Henning Paul wrote:

Spehro Pefhany schrieb:

I think I remember something like that, maybe with ground beef.

You mean Labskaus?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labskaus

Here in Bremen/Germany we usually leave away the fish and use just Corned
Beef (the brazilian Corned Beef is just fine). And sometimes, you find
diced pickles in it. Tastes even better, then.

Looks a lot like ordinary corned beef hash to me, if a little less
coarsely chopped.

But I wonder why they serve it with one of these?

http://www2.catalognavigator.com/libertyindustries/viewitems/tacky-mats/hand-held-tacky-roll-mop?plpver=1001

;-)
Rich

You could also serve with one of these:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/BismarckArbeitszimmer1886.jpg

From a cursory search, it looks like it'd be kinda hard to find one
these days. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

He looks like this these days:

http://www.gdh-imports.com/acatalog/04GE01.jpg

I was thinking of the "bismark roll", which I had thought was some kind
of jelly donut, or "bismark donut", which would be like a jelly roll.

But I can't find a single reference to the thing except at the wikipedia
disambiguator page, and all it has is the blurb, something like what I
said.

Oh, well.

Thanks!
Rich

Henry Kiefer · Dec 1, 2005

Thank you Jim for your longly explanations. I already knew the charge
storage process, but the phasing aspect was new and interesting.
My question about phase delay was in another direction.
To be concrete:
How to delay (=phase shift) a 145MegHz signal (mostly sinus waveform) with a
snap diode? After reading your explanation I cannot see how to achieve a
non-snapping action here. Maybe that would work with the diode if you
modulate it with dc current getting delay in the ps timescale.
Another question would be if it possible with the snap diode to make a power
amp in some form of ringing oscillator. Of course, it should be modulable at
least with FM.

- Henry

"RST Engineering" <jim@rstengineering.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:11ornbrrr5mv976@corp.supernews.com...

A step-recovery ("snap") diode works on the principle of stored charge in
the diode. During the forward biased half of the AC waveform, the diode
is
a very low impedance and it stores excess charge; during the reverse
biased
half of the waveform, the diode remains a low impedance until the stored
charge is depleted, at which time the diode "snaps" into high impedance.
This snap acts much like a spark-gap transmitter, in that a tremendous
number of higher order harmonics are generated. In general (and there are
ways to enhance this), the power available from any harmonic is around 1/n
*
Pin, where n is the order of the harmonic and Pin is the RF power input to
the diode.

Biasing the diode simply varies the point on the reverse cycle of the AC
waveform where the diode snaps. For maximum power, you try to get the
diode
to snap at the peak of the waveform. However, by varying the diode bias,
you can get it to snap before or after the peak of the waveform.
Generally
you can get it to snap plus or minus about 30 degrees about the peak
before
the snap action degrades.

60 degrees of phase shift is nothing to talk about unless you are working
with the 10th harmonic, which means a phase shift of 600 degrees. Now
you've got something to work with.

Jim

Jim Thompson · Dec 1, 2005

On 30 Nov 2005 18:46:34 -0800, Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Winfried Salomon wrote...
Jorgen Lund-Nielsen wrote:
Winfried Salomon wrote:

btw, do you know a standard complementary pnp-transistor for the
2N2369, such like 2N3905 but with higher ft and less feedback
capacitance? It seems that the manufactorers have almost no data
on their internet pages.

Maybe 2N4261? Have not looked into the datasheet, but as i remember,
i have seen them sometimes in complementary with the 2N2369

That was a high-frequency part for the time, spec'd at 1200MHz...

the problem is, that it is an rf-transistor and can't be driven at
30V/0.2A, I found a complementary in an old table KTT, the 2N2894A,
but it also has max. 12V, so I find no other than the 2N3906.

An old Raytheon datasheet says the 2N2894 was doped with platinum.

[snip]

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Rolf_B · Dec 18, 2005

John Larkin wrote:

A 1N4007 can also be used as a drift step-recovery diode and as a
plasma avalanche diode. Together, two can generate a kilovolt edge
with a 100 ps risetime.

Very interesting. The 1N4007 seem to be very versatile devices.
They are available with a SOD-57 glass envelope, too (1N4007G?).
These are fairly well photoconductive. When illuminated by
a high efficiency IR LED (HSDL-4230 or so) current transfer
ratios of 0.001 can be achieved. Not too much, but with
two LEDs 100uA of photocurrent is obtainable. This is OK for
a pass element in an "electrostatic" power supply for e.g.
electron or ion lens systems.

--
mfg Rolf Bombach

Unusual functions of cheap parts

Günther Dietrich

Guest

Joel Kolstad

Guest

Phil Hobbs

Guest

Paul Burke

Guest

Henry Kiefer

Guest

RST Engineering

Guest

Oliver Betz

Guest

Rich Grise

Guest

Spehro Pefhany

Guest

Winfried Salomon

Guest

Rich Grise

Guest

Spehro Pefhany

Guest

Guest

John Larkin

Guest

Guest

Winfield Hill

Guest

Rich Grise

Guest

Henry Kiefer

Guest

Jim Thompson

Guest

Rolf_B

Guest

Log in

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor